LERNER NEWSPAPERS OCTOBER 3, 2001  Sara Burrows, Interviewer

What kinds of materials do you work with -- colors, pens, paper or parchment? Where do you get these things? Why did you decide to work in original materials and to almost the same scale as the Book of Kells?
That I work with original materials came about for very practical reasons, actually. I started out using gouache and inks with steel nibs on heavy pastel and watercolor paper; tools which I had been taught to use in college calligraphy classes. Had some good results, but at that time I was doing only lettering and simple knotwork...when working medium to large scale, bleeding ink lines are not noticeable. But as I really started to get into illumination and learned to work smaller scale, I became frustrated with most papers and inks...inks tend to wick out into the fibers of the paper, unless heavily sized or extra smooth surfaces are used.  Extremely fine work is out of the question, no matter how steady one's hand.

I thought perhaps the solution to these problems might be to go back to the ancient materials, and see if the parchment and quills might account for the supreme accuracy of the scribes. I obtained some real calfskin vellum and learned to cut goose quill pens. I quickly found that on the multi-layered, ultrasmooth surface of the calfskin, gouache or egg tempera would lay absolutely flat  and with NO wicking, no ragged edges....my lines, even under magnification, were razor sharp. The quills, once I learned to cut and cure them properly, could be shaved down to a point finer than any of my modern technical pens.

Vellum is the most beautiful material I've ever worked on...I was amazed at how perfectly smooth it is...and that daylight actually is carried under the surface of the translucent skin, and gives a slight 3D halo effect to the edges of your lines...this is why ancient illuminated pages seem to glow as if lit from within...vellum is incredible stuff. (Vellum is taken from cattle, parchment is sheepskin.)

My attempting to work in the same scale as the Book of Kells...well, that would not have been possible had I not tried using the ancient materials...vellum, quill and brush. Modern writing instruments and papers simply do not measure up to what the monks used a thousand years ago. I believe that the tools allowed the technique to develop...to paraphrase Mies, technique follows tool.

I must stress that I am only attempting to work in the scale of Kells...I consider myself to be a student, an apprentice scribe.  My vellum pages are roughly the same page size as Kells (10" x 13") , but to my knowledge, no artist has yet succeeded in producing details anywhere near the microscopic scale of the monks' work. But there certainly are a few other madmen like myself out there, trying to figure out exactly how the scribes did it. I think that our work is both a personal challenge and a tribute to those unknown ancient artists whose work we regard as genius.


Because your art is so directly related to previous works, what makes it your art, as opposed to being a copy of something?
This is a very good question, one which takes us into realm of copyright, public domain, issues of authorship, etc. In these days of instant reproduction and the Internet, it is a very important question for artists, writers, musicians and anyone who creates. I won't get into all that here, but I will say that illegal reproduction of original artwork is a real problem today. It is especially difficult for us because people don't realize that these are original works, not in the public domain. Much of Celtic art depends on the use of ancient motifs....spirals, knotwork, interlaced animals. The ancient symbols are to a Celtic artist what individual words are to the writer. But even though all Celtic artists use the ancient design language, we do not write the same old book over and over again. We are producing brand-new work using traditional Celtic motifs. Each artist's work is unique.

Sadly, there are cases of "artists" merely copying fragments of Kells and presenting it as their own "new" work, but there are also many other artists who are creating brand new original Celtic art, not copied from the past. Some are taking the art in brand new directions, others like myself are taking the traditional road, picking up where the monks left off, attempting to discover what might have come after the Book of Kells, had the Vikings not so rudely interrupted.


I understand that your Irish background led you to things Celtic, but why the ancient work? What do you think it has to say, besides simply being beautiful, to modern Americans?
I think to most Americans of Celtic descent, Celtic art is an expression of their heritage first and foremost. It's been enough generations since our immigrant ancestors arrived here and sought to become Americans...now we can look back at where we came from, proudly. And given the current mass-media disposable culture, it's not surprising that Americans are reaching back to find their roots.

When I discovered the Book of Kells, it became my passion to unlock the secrets of the art, to discover how human hands were able to produce work of such exquisite beauty on an almost microscopic scale. And the more I learned, the more I came to realize how much has yet to be discovered. Actually I consider myself to be as much a researcher as an artist. With each new page, I learn a little more, am able to draw things just a bit smaller, uncover some ancient trick of the trade. I keep in touch with Trinity College Dublin and occasionally correspond with them...we have been able to toss about a few ideas on how the monks worked, but in the absence of proof, they can only remain ideas.

Do you find that the monks' personalities have shaped their work at all?  Can you tell the work of one monk from that of another?
Oh, definitely, on both counts. There were often several artists at work on the same manuscripts, and in Kells there are at least three different "hands" visible in the calligraphy. You can see something of their personality in their work, it's like handwriting analysis, done a thousand years after the fact. Some are very careful and methodical, writing in cautious, sober letters. One scribe loves bright flame-red ink and dashes off his sentences with bold strokes and fancy flourishes... a definite extrovert. It's exactly the same with modern calligraphers.


What do you think is the place of art, in general, in today's society, as compared to what it was when the monks were illuminating their works? In other words, I guess, how much of the religious aspect of the works can still mean anything to us today?
Art in our society occupies much the same place that it did in ancient times. It is used to bring joy and beauty to the eye of the beholder, to decorate our lives and our possessions, to illustrate our written and spoken words, to convey many levels of meaning at once using powerful symbolic language. This is still true today...only the uses of art are much more varied than ever before.

As far as the ancient works conveying meaning to us today...the Christian message of the Book of Kells is clear enough, but the old Latin texts are difficult to read even for serious scholars, and the meanings of the much older pre-Christian symbols have mostly been lost. There is a lot of heated discussion over meanings and how they fit into the rich heritage of Celtic mythology, but firm conclusions are impossible.

I think that people enjoy a mystery, and the greatness of their ancestors' Celtic art makes their own heritage that much more wonderful. And we can't help but be awed by the dedication and powerful faith of these simple monks, whose masterpieces were meant for the eye of God, not man.

I prefer to follow the traditional road of manuscript painting because I feel that Kells was the highest level ever achieved in Celtic art. While they are stunningly beautiful, the Book of Kells and other Gospel books of the 7th and 8th century were created to teach Christian ideas to the native Celts, using their spirals, knotwork and interlace to convey a very new message in a familiar symbolic language. Using these ancient symbols, I cannot hope to reach my own modern generation in quite the same way, but these motifs can still carry meaning. Combined with the written word, they remain a powerful tool for communication. Contemporary Celtic art is very much alive and well on both sides of the Atlantic. It is not merely a rehash of the ancients, but a living tradition encompassing everything from illuminated manuscripts to painting to sculpture to video and computer art.

IRISH-AMERICAN NEWS MARCH 1999

What do you think of the huge public interest in Celtic culture these days?
It shows that people are hungry for something that's missing in today's popular culture. They need something that's authentic and rooted in their own history. I think it's great that after three or four generations of trying to become more American, we're finally ready to look back at where we came from. And of course Celtic culture is so rich, with wonderful things being done in music, art, theatre and dance. You don't have to be Irish to enjoy it all. It helps, of course.

What did you like best about growing up Irish in Chicago?
The sense of belonging, I think. The strong family and neighborhood bonds, and the feeling that you were part of a real community. I grew up in St. Thomas More Parish on the Southwest Side, on a city block where all the neighbors knew each other and looked after each other, almost an extended family. The Irish are like that . . very strong ties to the family and the land.

Why did you decide to make Celtic art?
Well, I don't have the feet of Michael Flatley, and my tin whistle playing is atrocious. Seriously though, I think that often Celtic art chooses you. Celtic art suits my temperament. I love solving problems, and Celtic design definitely requires that ability. And of course, I am drawn to beautiful, complex, intricate things, especially if they are very old. When I discovered that among the art of my ancestors was the most beautiful illuminated book ever produced, I was hooked. (laughs)

Your work is remarkably close to the Book of Kells . . . how do you manage to achieve such a small scale?
With great difficulty! Since I'm starting from scratch, it takes a lot of sketching and reworking just to finish a single 2" x 2" panel, and often there will be fifteen to twenty panels in the design. I try to do my pencil work at the same size as it will appear in the finished piece. This means a lot of false starts and resketching, and each small panel might take up to 3 or 4 hours before I'm satisfied. I try not to think about how much work is left to be done, or I'd be overwhelmed. Better to focus only on the small panel you're working on, and give yourself a little pat on the back as you finish each one.

So your pages must take a long time to complete?
Yes, an 11" x 14" page takes roughly 100 to 200 hours spread out over several months. I generally put in 2 to 4 hours per session in the evenings. Of course, the ancient monks weren't allowed to use candles in the scriptoriums, so all their work was done by daylight. I've gained a great deal of respect for the Irish monks. I often spend hours with a magnifying glass examining the details in Kells to see how the scribes solved interlace problems. When you look that closely, you can see places where the scribe changed his mind, or where he got into trouble and had to figure a way out.

Is that the best way to look at Celtic art?
Well, it's the best way to appreciate the details, but you also must consider the design as a whole. The wonderful thing about Celtic art is that it can be enjoyed on so many different levels . . . craftsmanship, harmony of design, calligraphy, symbolic meanings and so on.

Where did you study Celtic art?
I studied fine art at Niles College and Loyola University of Chicago, but unfortunately there were few if any Celtic art programs in the U. S., and so I had to teach myself from books. My "self-apprenticeship" lasted about five years before I felt confident enough to show my art publicly at Celtic events, exhibitions and on the Web.

Isn't it strange for someone who does medieval illumination with goose quill pens to have a website?
(Laughs) Actually, I must admit to being computer illiterate for the most part, although I'm learning fast. Luckily my lovely and talented wife knows all the programs and is there to back me up if the hard drive crashes! But really, I'm finding the Internet to be a wonderful resource, and we've met so many nice people in the Celtic art world over the Web.